Mumsnet has recently issued an important statement regarding their position about Gina Ford and her methods being discussed on their parenting boards.
I don’t want to say too much here (for reasons which will become clear if you click on the link) but I do want to say how much Mumsnet‘s message boards have helped over the years – they have stopped me feeling isolated, provided invaluable advice, made me laugh and cry, and most importantly given me an incredible sense of connection to parents from many different walks of life despite lots of differing opinions and parenting styles. Its closure would be a huge unnecessary loss in my opinion.
I will now be removing all references to Gina Ford from this site, despite previously being a fan of her routines. I apologise for the backwards editing – I don’t usually like removing things I have written, even if my opinions change along the way.
As an aside, does anyone spot the irony that a parenting expert is asking not to be discussed on parenting websites?
Update: looks like The Bad Mother’s Club are also having issues.
Update 2: James O’Brien on LBC has apparently just interviewed Justine (co-founder of Mumsnet) on the show. I’m hoping it’ll get added to the podcast so I can hear it. Apparently highlighted the issue in the UK that free speech is actually only available to the rich.
19 responses so far ↓
1 jax // 7th Aug 2006 at 4:25 pm
I didn’t even know there was a blogsearch on google til you mentioned it! I think that’s a very restrained post, and I’m well impressed at what is going on in the fight back.
2 Gwen // 7th Aug 2006 at 4:36 pm
Nice one [grin]
3 Pewari // 7th Aug 2006 at 6:01 pm
Hello jax and Gwen – welcome :)
Yes, there’s certainly some momentum now – with mentions in the Evening Standard (later editions) and on Five Live.
4 tangerinecath // 7th Aug 2006 at 6:10 pm
What I think.
I wonder how many other blogs will have similar posts today?
5 Pewari // 7th Aug 2006 at 6:24 pm
Well blogged, tangerinecath – I’ve fixed your link so it points to the post in question :)
6 paula // 7th Aug 2006 at 8:59 pm
One of my mates was sacked over what he innocently wrote on his blog about his workplace. So much for freedom of speech, it wasn’t even defamatory just regular day-to-day stuff.
7 Morning Papers - Pewari’s Prattle // 8th Aug 2006 at 8:12 am
[...] « Mumsnet and Gina Ford [...]
8 Paul // 8th Aug 2006 at 11:47 pm
Why don’t mumsnet shift their server to the US, ISP aren’t liable in the US and I doubt Gena Ford would try this there. Anyway, why is a women who doesn’t have kids reading a parents website – does she want to tell us something.
9 Gina Ford vs. Mumsnet Continued - Pewari’s Prattle // 9th Aug 2006 at 8:12 am
[...] Over the last 24 hours, I have watched, listened and read many of the news reports surrounding the Gina Ford vs. Mumsnet fracas. What I find interesting is that many news outlets seem to be missing the main point and are turning this into a discussion of Ms Ford’s methods. So I thought I’d summarise the actual implications of this case to emphasise that this is not trivial and something we should ALL be watching very closely, parents and non-parents alike. [...]
10 Sarah Phillimore // 9th Aug 2006 at 9:36 pm
Re Paul’s comment that Gina Ford doesn’t have children, therefore can’t advise on parenting… I can take or leave GF, followed some of her advice, some not. But can we please knock on the head this annoying assertion that only those who have spawned are entitled to talk about raising children? I work in the family law system. Some of my clients have had lots and lots of children. didn’t stop them treating said children appallingly. i’d rather take advice from GF who has cared for 100s of children than many men/women who have biological children. Believe me, the fact that you are related to a child means very little about your ability to care for him or her. So if you are going to knock her, keep it relevant. I have read that she is very unhappy about not being able to have children.
11 Christina Springer // 13th Aug 2006 at 2:05 pm
Sarah,
I agree that being a parent doesn’t make you an expert. Why do you think “self-help” has become a major industry? Why do you think Ms. Ford has sold 1/2 million books? Because people want to make the best decisions they can for their children. However, when one digs deeper into Ms. Ford’s qualifications – she still comes up lacking. Her biography is one of the least specific documents I’ve ever read. Especially when compared to someone like Margot Sunderland or Dr. Sears. What exactly are her qualifications? A maternity nurse is a catch-all phrase which doesn not necessarily mean she has qualifications in nursing, child development or psychology. So, it becomes very relevant combined with the fact that she seems to need to silence critical discussion or further investigation of her and her methods.
12 pinkchick // 17th Aug 2006 at 10:56 am
Hi, I agree, being a mother does not mean that you know how to care for children, we would not need the social servaces other wise.
I am a qualified nanny of 16 years with two qualifications, first aid, and experience of over 300 children, alot of the parents I have worked for are great, but alot have no idea, the children have no boundrys for behaviour other than me I may add, they kick, hit and mum laughs it off. They are rude to me the nanny, and the parents again laugh it off.
If my child was rude to any grown up, they would be taught right from wrong.
I have noticed in allot of my jobs in the past, the kids are perfect with me on there own, but once the parents are around they are terrible as they know they can get away with things. Now I am so experienced with the parents in the room, they are diciplined in front of the parent, I don’t care what the parent thinks now. And the result, well the parents comments are always, ‘how do you manage to get them to behave so well, they are horrors for us at the weekend’, and I reply ‘boundries, dicipline, and no means no, I never give in’. They are amased. I will add, I know 20 other nannies and they are all the same as me, and some of them have there own children and all of them are wonderfull.
By the way, I do think Gina Ford has way overeacted, and it will not do her book sales any good. Routine is great for children, but not ridgid unflexable routine that does not allow a child to sleep anywhere if an emergency arrises.
13 Sarah Phillimore // 18th Aug 2006 at 10:04 pm
Christine,
I understand the point you are making and of course anyone claiming to be an ‘expert’ on anything should be able to justify this.
But I’m not really bothered about whether GF is an ‘expert’ or not. As I’ve said, I find some of her stuff useful, some not.
What I am troubled by is the assumption which almost EVERY critic of GF seems to make, which is that she is somehow less able to comment on how children should be raised for the simple reaon that she has not given birth to one.
i am genuinely perplexed by this and wish someone could explain it to me. If I hadn’t had lots of help/advice/books, I would probably have killed my daughter thru simple incompetence within the first week of her life! She was the first baby I’ve ever spent more than 1/2 hour with.
GF may not be as forthcoming about her expertise as you would wish but I don’t think it is disupted that she has looked after hundreds of children over about 12 years. Therefore I would take advice from her over mnay of my friends who have experience of only one or two children.
I really wish criticism of her and her methods could be directed at what is relevant, and not descend into spiteful and personal attacks. No wonder she is sensitive to personal criticism given the frankly vile and unjustifiable personal things some of her critics say.
This is really just a general plea. I would really, really, really like to know why some people think giving birth to a child makes you wiser than those who haven’t.
14 grannytofour // 20th Aug 2006 at 2:15 pm
Pewari’s Prattle is supporting Mumsnet members in their Freedom of Speech campaign. If you are by any chance a parent who wishes their children to be brought up in a decent society, this is what Pewari is endorsing. As a mother of two and grandmother of four very yougn children, I believe that children live what they learn from their parents. The following is just a few of the hundreds of posts made my mothers on mumsnet.com.
Pewari’s prattle may think that this type of psoting is acceptable on a parenting forum. But when the real truth comes out, I believe that their will be hundreds of parents who wish to protect their children from this.
TAKEN FROM THE MUMSNET FORUMS IN APRIL 2006
By lucykate on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:11:33 PM
report this post
gina ford
By Greensleeves on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:11:58 PM
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Cuntitty-cunt*.
*Fuckstubble*
*Fartgobbler*
*Fuckunt*
*Shitesnarf*
*Cuntbubbles
By georginarf on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:12:09 PM
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pee poo belly bum drawers
By spidermama on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:12:58 PM
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Gina Ford is a (insert GS’s post.)
By SleepyJess on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:13:31 PM
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fuckwit bollox
By JustforCOD on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:15:18 PM
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“That was out of order”.
As I know it bugs her .
By FastasleepInHerOwnBed on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:15:55 PM
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I love greensleeves and hunkmunker but hate everyone else because they all look like michelle mcmanus.
I wouldn’t listen to anything Michelle McManus has to say about looking after a baby
By expatinscotland on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:18:08 PM
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Cum rag cunt.
Mother fucking cock sucking dicksmack.
Dumb fucking nowhere shit.
Well, fuck me gently w/a chainsaw.
Need a lift? Then shove a jack up your arse.
By FastasleepInHerOwnBed on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:19:05 PM
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someone whose name begins with G has a face like Michelle mcmanus’s ARSE!!!!!!!!!!!
And it isn’t spacey, I like spacey, she’s moving near me, and therefore must be my friend, or else. And her name doesn’t start with G anyway….
By spidermama on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:19:39 PM
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Expat! PMSL!
By expatinscotland on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:19:52 PM
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Class A drugs are great. I think everyone should try them as a teen, just as sort of aversive conditioning. Particularly injectible heroin.
By Ledodgy on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:20:07 PM
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Yes! Are you back now expat? Thats Brill!
oh and just to add to the thread im glad your fuckin back you fuck!
By expatinscotland on Friday, 21 April, 2006 10:20:17 PM
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i’m drunk.
and you are all twats, not vipers.
15 pinkchick // 21st Aug 2006 at 6:40 pm
Here, here Sarah, if you not agree with a routine, fine, don’t do it, do things how you feel are right.
But never personally attack a person, just because a person has brought a book out with a point of view, that does not meen she herself is some kind of bad person.
Everyone has likes and dislikes about bringing up children, allot of things in Gina Fords book make a hell of a lot of sence, but she has learned from experience and observations of children what things you can do in the care of children to stop negative things happening.
I will give some examples that are nothing to do with Gina, Nannies or parents, but are proven things linked to experiments done.
(1) If you rock a baby to sleep every night, it will never go to sleep on its own in a cot. Why, because it is being taught unconsciously that is how you sleep.
(2) If you give in to your child and give Petit Filou, bread sticks, rice cakes, or offer anything else, when they do not want there dinner, don’t be surprised they will catch on fast that they do not have to eat any meals and get what they want. Hense why children have eating problems at a young age. Children should always be taught, the meal they are given is tea, nothing else will be given in its place.
Anything you teach a child becomes a childs life, ask any Psycologist like Tania Byron, the problems with all children come from the parents giving the child the wrong associations and not being firm. Ie no means no, not ‘oh my child will hate me if I don’t let them have what they want’ actually children love boundary’s, disapline and to know where they stand, it makes them feel comfortable in life, things become easy for them, and they can understand and comunicate. Being given into causes double meanings, it confuses them.
All Gina is advocating is to do a routine in your childs life, if you illiminate things from the day, then if your child is crying you can esily know what is wrong. So you child cry’s from 12.00 to 1.00, it won’t stop, well as a nanny I automaticlly know its tired and needs an afternoon nap, why, Its been fed at the right time, had its nappy changed, been played with, the only thing left is sleep, but I don’t need to wait till its crying in the first place, as a nanny I already know, after lunch children are tired, there food is digesting which causes tiredness and they have been up a long time, so I put them to sleep to prevent them being upset. On waking they are happy.
Its all common sence and illimination of problems before they start, the child is happy.
16 Pewari // 23rd Aug 2006 at 4:56 pm
*laugh* grannytofour – that thread was actually incredibly funny and was posted in response to one of the previous threats of lawsuits, as the dear woman didn’t want discussions of her parenting advice on the same site that had such prolific swearing. A rather funny, drunken evening parody-style thread, releasing steam from the legal frustrations.
Of course, I’m going to get some choice google searches now thanks to your comment… so sorry to any future googlers who were looking for an entirely different sort of site.
17 Little Legends Blog » Blog Archive » The short answer is T-shirts // 28th Sep 2006 at 5:30 pm
[...] And it looks like (the again small) Bad Mothers Club are having similar issues. [thanks to Pewari for the pointer] “Following recent communication with Gina F***’s advisers BMC has undertaken to remove any posts pertaining to her on our boards.” [...]
18 Antony Montana // 14th Dec 2006 at 11:05 am
So Gina Ford is not a parent. How can she give advice to parents? My wife has three children (so do I) and she is the best mother/wife I have ever known (including my own brilliant Mum). She was a au-pair before I met her. She has three kids and could give great advice to parents. She has learned a lot from experience. Some of that was when she was not a mother. My sister, who has a child older than mine, used to ignore my advice when I wasn’t a father for that reason. Now I am a father she listens to me. My advice hasn’t changed. I and the wife initially read instruction books for new parents (as you do) and thought most of them stated the obvious. She has also done things completely opposite to some recommendations and her methods have worked perfectly. So, in summary, my wife can give great advice to parents. She could have done that before she had kids. I have never read any of Gina Ford’s book, nor do I intend to – I don’t have the time.
19 FakeID // 21st May 2007 at 12:27 pm
Moving on.
I hope that Justine is able to come up with some actual suggestions on how the law could be changed to improve the situation.
See http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1374&threadid=320920
The views expressed in these comments are not the views of the publisher. However, we believe in the rights of others to express their legitimate views and concerns. Any legitimate complaint emailed to pewari@may.be will be seriously considered and the post reviewed as desirable and necessary.
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